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Forums > Hangout > I'm beyond being polite about this site

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Your audition process on this site is a dumpster fire. A total and absolute dumpster fire.

I've wanted to say that for at least a year. I have genuinely tried on multiple instances to audition. I have in all honestly done my absolute best on every attempt. What about my time and energy? Do you think that I have time to waste? There has to be some kind of appeal process that if someone says that they will accept anything for the audition and then they then change their mind then it is SOL for them and they have to accept what I sent. If you post an audition and say that I can take any approach then I will take a ceratin approach. There also has to be a consequence of denying an auition. That you are required to say WHAT YOU DID WANT and if the person meets that in a second audition and you reject it then you are fined a small amount [say 5 bucks].

Because this has got ludicrous. You have as a site imitated the worst type of real life audition. One that puts NO value on the time and energy of someone who turns up.

I'm too cynical to see anything changing here. I will not be continuing beyond my current membership that expires in about a month's time. How do you check that it isn't auto renewed? I thank people who have in rare instances accepted an audition. But that's been awhile. But my time, abilities and investments in equipment deserve better than this site.

Thank you

#3846 Posted Fri 24 May, 2019 1:33 am
Whoa brother... Look, I got turned down for an audition today too. In my case, I'm fortunate insomuch that it has nothing to do with the content of my audition, but entirely to do with the project being complete. In either case, that sort of thing happens. I don't think anybody could, or more accurately *should*, promise you that you won't waste your time on a site like this. I would instead advise that when you use services such as this site, you approach them as being addons to your career. What I mean by that, is that me, the people you've worked with here already, and anybody you could work with in the future, we're all just secondary components to the larger "neptunedexperiment" picture. We're the happy little bush in your mountain lake landscape. Everybody's still interested in the snow covered forest in the background, and hardly even knows we were in the scene at all. If you invest too much into this sort of site, no matter if it's this one or any similar ones, it will not payoff in the way you hope it does. Other things out there do, and I personally am more than just a musical collaborator. I'll collaborate with you in many ways, like I'll guide you how to set up your Songtrust account or help you link your PayPal to your freakin bandcamp page man. It's more than just putting tracks together. At least when it comes to me.

Back to what I was saying though. When I got turned down for the audition today, I wasn't even expecting to get it. I was submitting something I had put together within a very short time and was completely outside of my typical style. I had a lot of fun putting it together and learned quite a bit in the process. Like I said though, I wasn't expecting to get it. If I had, that would have been cool, but I approached that audition with at least 8 tracks of my own outside of here which were a much more substantial part to my career than my collaborations at this site. It was a secondary thing that if I got it, I got it, if I didn't I didn't, no big deal. That's the kind of approach you should have for any site like this.

All that said and aside, I have a project here (Too Perilous) that has never had an audition. Granted, when I placed my initial talent requests for it I intentionally went looking for conventional instruments. There are however synths in that song, and though I don't recall putting them on the list of requested instruments, if you or any other electronic musician feel that they can add to it in a constructive way, then I will gladly consider the material. I won't tell you you've got a guaranteed spot, but you've got an opportunity you may not have been aware of previously. I hope that helps in some way. Maybe if nothing else, to remind you to look for those types of opportunities with other people.
#3847 Posted Fri 24 May, 2019 2:28 am

Hey, Neptune. Here's a couple of tips from my experience (also rejected from many a project)..

1. Don't orchestrate and submit a complete symphony for an audition. If you spend weeks preparing, then the project and potential return had better be worth it. Instead, create a short snippet of your idea or concept and upload that,  just enough that you won't feel it was a waste of too much time and effort if the project owner doesn't like the idea. 

2. If a project description is too vague, or if you have questions, contact the project owner and start a conversation. Clarify any uncertainties you have. And if you decide that you don't want audition unless you are guarenteed to be included in the project, then you can confirm that directly before you even start work. You could also ask them to pay you $5 upfront in your tipjar as a deposit, which you could return once they accept it.

3. Be aware of members with little history or activity on the site. A lot of new members join, and then start 'test' projects, and then disoppear. That's life on a free and open site like this one, and most others. So do some due diligence before wasting too much time. Do they have other projects? Are they active? Any projects completed? Involved in the community? Verified? Have they previously shown interest in your style and talents? Etc. If in doubt, contact them. If they don't reply, then its probably not worth the risk for you. If they do reply, link them to your profile and ask them if they would be keen for you to submit something. On the other hand, if the member is active and rejects your audition then perhaps you should just respect their right to make decisions about their own projects for themselves. It's not called an 'audition' for no good reason, yanno? Projects that don't care what is submitted and will accept anything will probably mention that in the description already.. i've seen a few in the past.

Anyway, that's been my experience, and I've never been too dissapointed about being rejected, possibly because I don't approach an audition with the expectation that they must use my genius regardless it works for them or not. Hope you can find a balance that works for you. Good luck and rock onwards :)

#3848 Posted Fri 24 May, 2019 4:14 am
Hey Andrew,

I think anyone who has ever posted an audition has felt the “pain" of it being turned down……you think it’s great and perfect for the track and the project owner says “no thanks”……………. I’d hazard a guess pretty much all of us have had that at some point and the more you audition the more you’ll get it.

David Bowie once told Chris Martin a song he has sent him to ask if he would collaborate on “wasn’t really any good” or words to that effect - so I guess we’re all in good company. Sort of goes with the territory.

There’s some really good points raised by the responses from @StanOfManyMoons and @MonkeyC - and the one I really relate to is just do a short concept - it’s what I do if I audition, it’s really a bit like saying “Do you like this?” then if they do, you can work on it and if they don’t you’ve not wasted too much time. But maybe had a bit of fun, and pushed your boundaries in developing the concept anyway.

ProCollabs isn’t unique in they way the audition process works, it’s pretty standard across any collaboration site if you are volunteering an idea. And certainly it’s not perfect, but people have different opinions of what they like, and if they own the project they get the final say.

You do raise a pretty interesting point though which is definitely worth discussing.

If someone suggests you can do anything, that they want an idea that pushes their normal boundaries it does set a certain expectation. i.e. “I want to hear something different, I wan’t you to challenge me”. Then you get told “no thanks” and it turns out they didn’t really want to be challenged at all, or just don’t like you version of “challenging”. It feels a bit disconnected, not what they were really saying.

Maybe a potential way around this would be to have a facility that says if they ask for an audition but then turn it down, the person who supplied the audition has the right to make a version of their own (a spin off).

So on the audition page, the project owner would have the option to say: If I turn your audition down, you can use my original work and make your own version. A sort of automatic Spin Off, but one you choose to turn on or off. Then you know how serious someone is about exploring alternatives.

This is contentious I know, but maybe it sets the tone for if you really want something different and are prepared to let someone continue on that journey if you don’t like where they are going, or really you just want, exactly what you want and you won’t know what it is until you hear it, which is pretty much how it is :-)

What’s the general feeling?

Don’t take it all too seriously, we all get rejected on auditions……..

I spent a lot of time on that audition, I should be allowed to continue the journey……….

Or maybe there’s other perspectives……..?
#3849 Posted Fri 24 May, 2019 7:02 am
As a "casual" member on this site, who subsequently has been attacked by you previously, I am under no obligation to exercise any form of diplomacy, nor do I care if they delete my account for saying this. If anything is a dumpster fire, it's your attitude. You are a taxing personality without the talent to justify dealing with it. I see others making efforts to accommodate you by accepting your auditions, contributing to your work, and applying extremely liberal amounts of diplomacy along the way, all while wearing the lightest of kid gloves.

Your previous threat to leave didn't take hold, nor will this one. Now that you are getting the attention you so desperately seek, what's next? I believe you are actually a trolling account with nothing to offer outside of stirring up trouble.
#3850 Posted Fri 24 May, 2019 7:57 am

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